Muslims!
Can we maybe stop now?
Also, read this article on Saadawi.
DS: I lost a few followers with my niqaab rant yesterday #meh
ST: serves you right for defending “assimilation.”
DS: I wasn’t defending assimilation at all. I just said niqab is one extreme we can do without.
DS: If I were defending assimilation, I’d say the veil should be banned too.
ST: you’re making a distinction that shouldn’t exist. It’s not a question of which Muslim head covering should be banned.
ST: a violation of civil liberties should not be heralded as “feminism.” It’s part of a wider culture of European supremacy.
DS: Also there IS a distinction between hijab and niqab.
ST: there shouldn’t be in legal terms. All that does is demonize niqabis.
DS: Civil liberties also includes my right to see a person’s face in order to identify them.
ST: you don’t actually have a right to see other people’s faces. Your rights don’t extend to control over other people.
ST: niqab laws are nothing more than a targeting of France’s Muslim community disguised as women’s emancipation.
ST: they are xenophobic to the extreme.
@TheOnlyWarman: and their not banning crucifixes, skullcaps or orange robes
DS: Those religious symbols don’t hurt anyone or society.
WM: neither does the veil
ST: and niqabis do? Wtf.
DS: Not saying the veil should be banned. On the contrary. Just the face veil.
WM: but it’s still a part of freedom
ST: also demonstration of how secularism can become its own state religion and be used to justify intolerance.
DS: Why can’t they show their faces?
ST: ana maly it’s their choice.
@marwan_ehab: I can debate that the niqab is not a religious duty & it does more harm than good by posing a lot of threats
ST: it has nothing to do with whether or not it’s a religious duty which it demonstrably isn’t.
ME: y do people have an identity then? Might as well cancel any ID card bcuz it’ll be useless
ST: logistics. If a niqabi is pulled over for drunk driving then the police officer has a right to see her face. But come on ya3ny.
DS: But it’s my RIGHT to be able to see the person in front of me.
ST: no it isn’t. You have no rights when it comes to other people. They, on the other hand, have the right to cover their faces.
DS: What purpose does the face veil serve? It does more harm than good 2 society and poses as a security issue.
ST: clothes never serve as a force for good in any society so I don’t see your point.
ST: in sum, niqabis are human beings with agency and are therefore accorded the right to do what they want.
ST: you have no right to demand that they show their faces.
ST: in the Western context, niqab laws are an attempt to impose “correct” cultural values on an “alien” immigrant community.
DS: Thats not true its a basic right & need from any society 2 b able 2 see everyone’s face. Ma I’m saying it should b banned here 2
ST: we are debating the rights of a group of women to which none of us belong as if they’re up for grabs.
ST: rights, in case you need reminding, are inalienable.
ME: we should give rights 2 terrorists then to practice what they want if security doesn’t matter 2 u!
ST: terrorists kill or espouse the killing of people. Niqabis cover their faces for personal religious reasons.
ST: if you can’t see a distinction: a7a. Your conflation of niqabis and terrorists is extremely out of line and worrying.
ST: if you want to read about how niqab is being used as a site for rhetorical anti-Muslim violence (1)
ST: read “The Burqa in Vogue” and “Do Muslim Women Really Need Saving” both available through databases. (2)
DS: So would it be ok for men to cover their faces too?
ST: yes.
ST: Identifying niqabis with terrorism is flat out discrimination.
ST: I am a committed secularist and a hardcore agnostic who hates Wahabi Islam.
ST: However, niqabis are agent human beings who have rights that I will continue to defend.
ST: Even if the practice stems from a brand of faith that I personally despise. I uphold women’s rights to dress however they like no exception.
DS: So would it be ok for all of society to walk around with their faces covered?
ST: yes it would.
DS: That’s a problem.
@Deenasdfghjkl: I dont understand why there was OUTRAGE when France banned the face veil. Time to do away with these outdated traditions & improve our image
@spacetubes: no. France is targeting women who don’t conform to Western standards of dress. Women should be able to choose what they wear.
ST: appearing in public space under parameters you set for yourself is a condition for democracy.
DS: You can’t walk around covering your face. People have a right to know what you look like & this poses as a security concern.
ST: furthermore, assimilation is bullshit. Western does not equal modern or women’s emancipation.
ST: there was a lot of really disgusting colonial feminist rhetoric around this. It only affects 200 women in France.
ST: I personally hate niqab/hijab, but this is a violation of civil liberties.
DS: hijab is more than fine.I like to think of it as a fashion choice. Niqab makes absolutely no sense.
ST: I agree that it makes no sense. However, it’s not for me to decide what does or doesn’t make sense to other people.
DS: You can’t walk around covering your face. People have a right to know what you look like & this poses as a security concern.
ST: it poses a security threat in banks and airports, maybe. Logistics that can be individually dealt with.
DS: In all public spheres in general. A wanted criminal can be walking around in niqab and no one would know.
ST: a wanted criminal can always dye their hair or wear a fake moustache. Maybe France should ban them.
ST: come on. How many criminals do you think are randomly caught by strangers on the street?
ST: read: http://bit.ly/csVvOg
DS: You still can’t have people not show their faces! How is that even modest?
ST: I’m not defending the reasoning behind it. I don’t agree with it. It’s a question of rights and of minorities being targeted.
DS: how is it Islamic? It’s not.
ST: Deena! While it is not required by Islam, it is distinctly Islamic in the sense that Muslim women wear it.
DS: True but its a form of Islam that I believe the world can do without. I really really hate it and hate what it stands for.
ST: niqabis in public/people walking around in their underwear. Neither is a threat to French society.
ST: more reading: http://bit.ly/fDKvi8
ST: same here. I will, however, uphold the right of Muslim women to do whatever the fuck they want.
DS: Me too but there are limits.
